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Feb 3, 2013 5:35am EST
in the syria. that we will hear from josh and aaron on why the u.s. should not go any further. then the leon and bob will rebut their argument. i will begin a discussion by grilling the one or both of the teams on their arguments. the other side will have a chance to respond. each team will have three minutes to answer questions. their answers strike -- somebody could come and uniform and escort you out. let's get to it with bob k. again and leon on why the u.s. should be doing more in syria. >> thank you. thank you senator john mccain who is a national hero for the work he has been doing in the senate all of these years. i just use up some of my time, but it is worth it. let me stipulate first of all, the united states cannot do everything everywhere. we cannot involve ourselves even when there are humanitarian crises. we cannot always involve ourselves. there are limitations on our capabilities, our resources, and our attention. the question really is, does syria rise to the level that those acquire our attention. if you think about america's role in the world, traditionally a our involvem
Feb 3, 2013 6:00am EST
. you are seeing the end of the state. of the non-, palestine, syria, iraq. i do not suggest abandoning syria. buffered jordan and lebanon and turkey. run an international tin cup. i was in baker. i saw what he saw and did. what he recommended was focused. means related to end us. 0-- ends. we are emerging from some of the longest wars in american history. victory never determined by when we could win, but when could we leave. extrication is not the metric that you want to evaluate the performance and behavior of the most consequential power on earth. barack obama is the great extricate her. his role is to get americans out of conflicts, not get them into new ones. cruel and unforgiving assessment. >> thank you, aaron. [applause]>> we will take it from your rebuttal. we will now have a three-minute rebuttal from liana. we will leave it to josh to do that rebuttal. >> i will say couple of things quickly. first, with all due respect to the presidency, it is not up to him or the president what history provides. history presents challenges, whether he wants to do the great indicator -- it i
Jan 31, 2013 6:30pm PST
>> this is the "journal" on dw in berlin. >> our top stories at this hour -- syria says it has the right to defend itself following an israeli air strike right over its territory. >> a shock for a german banking giant as it post more than 2 billion euros in quarterly losses. >> and tornadoes batter six u.s. states in the southeast of the country. >> syria has summoned the head of the united nations mission in israeli-occupied territory. the issue is an israeli air raid on what syrian officials say was a military research center near damascus. >> the arab league has also condemned the strike, but the actual target is still not exactly clear. some reports suggest a weapons convoy believe to be carrying russian-made anti-aircraft missiles from syria into lebanon. >> we will speak to an expert on the region later. first, this report. >> the israeli government has not issued any statement, but national papers are full of the news. u.s. officials say the raid targeted a weapons convoy headed for members of hezbollah, an ally of the syrian president. but the syrian government denied t
Jan 31, 2013 4:00pm PST
such weapons from syria. is israel attacks, it means that such an attempt by hezbollah was made. >> the contagion from the violence in syria worries the whole region. syria sits on the middle east religious and political fault lines. they connect the war to all of its neighbors, whether they like it or not. the war in syria is exporting trouble. its neighbors are seeing a new threats to their security as a result of the slow collapse of the syrian state. this time, israel felt threatened but all of the country sharing borders and some further afield have seen rising tensions and in some places, bloodshed because of the war. international diplomacy is deadlocked. >> that there has been problems in the turkish border in recent weeks. there are huge flows of refugees over the jordanian border. many tensions in iraq at the moment. lebanon, many connections to syria. the longer this crisis goes on, the more people that it affects, the greater the danger. >> in syria, the victims of the latest massacre at aleppo have been buried. syria is breaking up before everyone's eyes according t
Feb 3, 2013 2:00pm PST
>> the president of syria warned israel he is ready to confront any act of aggression. >> the warning comes as new un figures reveal a massive increase in the number of syrian refugees in the last month alone. this is al-jazeera live from london. people are killed a suicide bomb on police headquarters in iraq. the egyptian protests of a man being beaten and why the story was changed again. the opposition leader of spain joined protests calling for the prime minister to quit over corruption. football couple -- oldest football club becomes the latest victim in the economic crisis. >> the president of syria has accused israel of trying to stabilize its country. the warning comes as new u.s. figures show the number of serious refugees rose by more than 25% last month. the president told state television the military is ready to confront any act of aggression by israel. this follows an air strike outside the capital of damascus on wednesday with the government has blamed on israel. the promise came as he met the head of a rob's and national security council. the theory of c
Feb 18, 2013 6:30pm PST
. >> her headlines this hour. even human rights investigators say syria should be taken to the international criminal courts. >> the german president mes the families of victims murdered in a neo-nazi killing spree. >> supporters of venezuelan leader hugo chavez celebrate his returns from the hospital in cuba. captioned by the national captioning institute >> a u.n. human rights investigator says it's time for the international criminal court to investigate war crimes in syria. she was a former chief prosecutor at the criminal court before she joined the u.n. >> the statement was made in geneva after an inquiry on syria released athey have askede accountability for violence is created by both sides. it has already claimed an estimated 70,000 lives. >> distressing images showing the aftermath of a helicopter assaults on aleppo. 20 were killed. this is just one many incidents of war crimes documented in the civil conflict. murder, torture, and rape becoming commonplace in a war becoming more chaotic by the day. this is the conclusion of the u.n. commissi
Feb 25, 2013 5:30am PST
the iranian hostage crisis takes best picture at the oscars. syria is now ready to talk to armed groups in an attempt to stop nearly two years of civil war according to the country's foreign minister, who is in moscow holding talks with his russian counterpart. they said that further bloodshed should be avoided as it may lead to the collapse of syria. >> the opposition coalition has given out conditions for dialogue not meant to bide time , but they released the victim as a specially women. we are open to all options ending the killing and destruction. >> first, charlie is live for us from moscow with more on those developments. what more did they have to say? >> after saying that the syrian government is ready to dialogue, all of the who want dialogue, he went on to say that a branch about qaeda it is the main fighting force in syria -- a branch about tied it is the main fighting force in syria. these other words that moscow does not want to hear, one of the biggest worries over a destabilized syria is that it will impact russia's own troubled relationship. that aside, the talk of dial
Feb 1, 2013 12:00pm EST
on youtube messages coming in from radical elements in syria, from aqap from human. it's starting to happen but interestingly enough, i found a tweet, i found a very interesting of this was about a month and a half ago. it came from an individual in indonesia that was praising with the islamists were doing in mali. hopefully all they would need from the brother around the world to progress. so this is not, this is already filtered like a cancer everywhere. and what you have is the center of attention the center of attention the center of attention for jihadi in different parts of the world. so this is where the caution comes in. i think this is where the french can really benefit from our assistance and thinking in the long-term. >> well, i think the first thing that we need to do is just be aware. we need to be aware that there is indeed a new arc of instability, that stars at libya -- starts at libya, based on what you just said, extends down into mali. not necessarily effected nigeria yet, and then connects to northern nigeria. that's the first thing. you have to be aware of that. the se
Feb 1, 2013 6:30pm PST
>> live from the berlin studios of dw, this is the "journal." >> with syria and mali in focus, world leaders convene for the munich conference. >> criticism in front of the presidential palace. >> it has become the byword for organized -- [no audio] -- celebrates its 100th birthday. thanks for joining us. international leaders are gathering in bavaria for the annual munich security conference. the german defense minister opened the conference by focusing on the current conflicts in syria and moly -- mali and emphasizing the importance of ongoing cooperation between europe and the united states. them in the united nations has been gridlocked over syria for months, and often, these occasions provide a more informal opportunity for an exchange of ideas. one of the most prominent speakers will be vice president joe biden of the u.s., and he stopped off in berlin on the way to the meeting. >> the u.s. vice-president peter were when visit to the german capital and his first to the german chancellery. he held an equally brief press conference after talks with chancellor merkel, givin
Feb 20, 2013 2:30pm PST
of the country. >> the decision on whether to release him on bail could be taken tomorrow. >> now to syria, where two years after the uprising began, bloodshed continues. today an air raid on a suburb in damascus reportedly killed at least 20 people. the mortars exploded, killing one of the players. the city of aleppo has seen some of the most intense fighting. conway filed this report. >> the night sky troubles with the sound of war, -- trembles with the sound of war. thousands have lost their lives. as the fighting spreads, many parts of syria and now look like this. rebel fighters have made any gains in the north. towns, military bases, air fields. they have the misfortune of lying beside their necks and biggest target so far. aleppo region and now they're next biggest target so far, aleppo airport. -- they have the misfortune of being beside the next biggest target so far, aleppo airport. >> this is now a key strategic target for the rebels. if they take this, not only will it have been a strategic success also an important symbolic victory. >> controlling the airport means wiping out the arm
Feb 8, 2013 5:30pm PST
on the monster storm from bernie rayno of accuweather. >> woodruff: then, should the u.s. arm the rebels in syria? ray suarez examines a growing rift between the white house and key members of the president's cabinet. >> brown: spencer michels has the story of new discoveries about mars coming from the rover vehicle known as "curiosity," the product of nasa's jet propulsion lab. >> it may sound familiar but what scientists here at jpl are actually looking for are signs of life past and present on the red planet >> woodruff: mark shields and david brooks analyze the week's news. >> brown: and we close with a conversation with pulitzer- prize-winning humorist dave barry about miami, the "insane city" that's the focus of his new novel. >> the people come from everywhere, people just weird people are attracted to miami. the wildlife is weird, the weather is weird, it's a festering stew of weirdness. >> woodruff: that's all ahead on tonight's newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: bnsf railway. >> support also comes from carnegie corporation of new york, a foundation cre
Feb 8, 2013 3:00pm PST
on our web site. and still to come on the newshour: deep divisions over syria policy; new information from the surface of mars; shields and brooks; and humorist dave barry. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: heavily armed police moved deeper into snow- covered mountains east of los angeles today, hunting an ex- police officer wanted for three murders. christopher dormer's burning truck was found yesterday near the big bear lake resort, about 80 miles from los angeles. today, san bernardino county sheriff john mcmahon said, so far, there's been no sign of dormer himself. >> we saw the tracks as i indicated last night. we followed those trackings around through the forest am we haven't found any new information to suggest the tracks are going any specific area. we're going to continue searching until either we discover that he left the mountain or we find him, one of the two >> sreenivasan: dormer was fired from the la police department in 2008. this week, he left an angry manifesto on facebook, in effect declaring war on the police. at least
Feb 21, 2013 6:30pm PST
in the heart of syria's capital, damascus. >> the oscar pistorius murder case takes a bizarre twist as the lead detective faces murder charges himself. >> and we talk to a member of the pussy riot punk band who says she would do it all over again. a powerful bomb in the syrian capital has killed at least 50 people and injured scores of others. >> the explosion took place near the ruling party's headquarters in caused widespread destruction in what was one of the deadliest attacks in the city in several months. >> moments after the blast, the military headquarters in the city came under mortar attacks. the government is blaming terrorists. >> syrian state tv broadcast images of the attack. the car bomb hit a security checkpoint near the headquarters of the ruling party and the russian embassy. opposition activists say most of the victims were civilians, though that cannot be confirmed. the blast damaged a number of cars and buildings in the surrounding area. >> this is terrorism. this is a crime. >> a huge cloud of smoke rose above the city center. shortly after that bombing, there were reports
Feb 21, 2013 12:35am PST
battle torn syria as air strikes rock the suburbs and the violence threatens to boil over in the middle east. >>> and with just four days until the 85th academy award, we stack up, the young, old, record holders and record breakers. it's oscars by the numbers. >> announcer: ke >> announcer: from new york city, this is "nightline" with bill weir. >>> today brought a cliffhanger moment in a murder trial full of twists and turns. jodi arias, the arizona woman facing death row for shooting, stabbing and slashing her one time boyfriend. tearfully told the court she acted in self defense and she can't remember everything that happened that fateful night. here is abc's ryan owens for our series "crime and punishment." >> the gun went off. i didn't mean to shoot him or anything i didn't even think i was holding the trigger. >> reporter: from the mouth of a killer. today the jury heard jodi arias' version of what happened the day she took these pictures of her ex-boyfriend travis alexander in the shower. >> i am taking pictures of him. weep were trying out different poses. it was a little weird
Feb 2, 2013 6:00am PST
counsel with syria and mali on the agenda. the anniversary of the victory of the battle of stalingrad. and, a win over and over. -- hanover. we start with the annual munich security council, which is underway a second day. it is one of the most important gatherings of security officials in the world. topping the agenda is the ongoing volatile situation in the middle east and the war in syria. us vice president joe biden addressed a conference and called on the sheer to step down -- the syrian president to step down. >> vice president joe biden has made his anticipated appearance at the munich security conference. one of the key themes of his speech was the situation in the middle east. on the subject of iran, biden offered direct talks over the countries nuclear program. >> we have made it clear at the outset that we would be prepared to meet bilaterally with the iranian leadership. that offer stands, but it must be real and tangible, and there has to be an agenda they are prepared to speak to. we are not prepared to do it for the exercise. >> biden came to dispel fears that the united sta
Feb 2, 2013 2:00pm PST
a demonstrator fuels anger in egypt. syria's opposition tries to bring law and order to the streets of aleppo with a new police force. spain's prime minister denies receiving secret payments in a growing corruption scandal. and find out what drove a member of this japanese pop group to shave her head and apologize to her fans. welcome to the program. the french president francois hollande says his army will stay in mali until sovereignty is restored. he made the pledge on a triumphant trip to the country days after french troops ousted the rebels from the last of the three main northern cities they'd occupied. hollande got a hero's welcome visiting timbuktu. jackie is in timbuktu for us. not quite mission accomplished but it seems like hollande was welcomed, indeed. >> yes. francois hollande saw this as a mission of three stages to prevent the rebels from continuing their advance south, to recapture towns taken by the rebels and restore territorial integrity sovereignty to mali. the third part of the mission will take much longer. let's take a look at the president's day in tim puck to - timb
Feb 4, 2013 8:30am EST
.n. sanctions on, on syria. uh, you clever fellows tricked us on the libyan thing. you didn't talk about regime change, you talked about humanitarian issues, but after all it was all about regime change. >> now the lessons of libya are being applied to another country where a brutal dictator is cracking down on his own people, syria. >> we sit here today worrying about syria where assad is doing terrible things and i would like to stop it. >> it's incredibly dangerous to go on this road with bashar al-assad is almost certain to try to carry a war into these sanctuaries that his adversaries are using. >> but here, strategic interests and cautious politics have prevented a humanitarian intervention. >> i think the intervention in libya. um, i mean the case was just so extraordinarily unique that it's difficult to imagine. i think syria is a good example now of the difficulty of actually duplicating that kind of, uh, consensual intervention. you know, getting the approval of the security council for something as robust as a military intervention, i think in the short-term, anyway, is going to be
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Feb 7, 2013 3:00pm PST
weapons to the resistance in syria? do you support that? >> we did. >> last weekend the "new york times" reported clinton and petraeus asked the white house last summer for permission to arm the veerian rebels. senator rand paul hinted last week that the annex in benghazi benefiting may have been involved in moving weapons from libya to syria via turkey. chris? >> jennifer griffin reporting from the pentagon. thanks. let's get reaction now from the vice chair of the senate intelligence committee, georgia republican sax by chambliss. you were busy in both hearings. let's start with the benghazi hearing. competent in a at that said the pentagon didn't have the intelligence or the assets to get to benghazi in time to protect those four americans who were killed. let's take a look. >> you can't just willie nilly send f-16s there and blow the hell out of a place without knowing what's taking place. you can't send ac 130s there, blow the hell out of a target without knowing what's taking place. >> did you find panetta and the chairman of the joint chiefs, did you find them persuasive on this
Feb 26, 2013 6:00am PST
these services do in these countries. >>> syria's foreign minister says the government is ready for dialogue. but opposition forces are skeptical. they've been working to form a professional government. foreign minister met in moscow with his russian counterpart lagrov. he said the syrian government will talk with anyone, even those holding weapons. an opposition activist told nhk the assad administration is not serious about dialogue. he suggested the foreign minister is trying to buy time so syrian troops can continue their attacks. leaders of the opposition syrian national coalition insist president assad must be removed as a precondition for any talks. the conflict in syria has dogged diplomats and governments around the world for nearly two years. the deputy secretary-general of the united nations calls the situation absolutely urgent and extremely critical. jan eliasson is spending the rest of the week in japan after stops in japan and south korea. we spoke with him before he left u.s. headquarters in new york about syria and the threats posed by north korea. >> reporter: the u.n. depu
Feb 3, 2013 5:30pm PST
. >> peter, thank you. >>> turning overseas to the crisis in syria. its neighbor has a lot at stake not only in the civil war that drags on but in syria's support of militant groups that threaten israel. this past week israel apparently sent its warplanes across the border to conduct an air strike near damascus. skrael israel defense minister confirmed it. foreign correspondent richard engel has more from istanbul. >> reporter: as syrians fight over which kind of islam will ultimately govern that country, long fears that the fighting could spill into neighboring countries. now it seems the violence left unchecked could escalate well beyond beyond that. today syria was the focus of an international security conference in munich. there israel's defense minister said it was israel that launched an air strike last week. >> when we say something, we mean it. we say that -- we don't think should be allowed to bring advance systems into lebanon. >> reporter: israel attacked a convoy carrying sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles that were bound for hezbollah in lebanon. hezbollah and israel as sworn
Feb 3, 2013 5:30am PST
link tv, a world of creativity. >> syria is at the top of the agenda in munich. the israeli defense minister says that it is imminent. >> this is the world news, from al-jazeera. dozens of people have been killed in northern iraq after a suicide bomber attacked on a police headquarters. what is wrong with this picture? barack obama's shooting skills are on show as he plans to get tough on guns. back to the future, some people prefer to watch the world in black and white in britain. nearly 60,000 people killed in syria after two years, we finally might be looking at some diplomatic progress. for the first time, the president's chief ally, russia, with the help of the syrian national coalition, the foreign minister spoke to us on the sidelines of the security council meeting in munich. he says he wants to keep in regular contact with syrian opposition. iran is another staunch ally of the syrian president. after the 45 minute meeting, they talked about a way to remove the regime with the least possible bloodshed. there has been serious opposition to the presence of government subject t
Feb 20, 2013 5:30am PST
and quetta is unpredictable, indeed. humanitarian crisis in syria is deepening at an alarming rate. it is described as a human tragedy unfolding before our eyes. 4 million people in the country are in desperate need of aid, nearly double the number of five months earlier. 800,000 people have left serious thee the -- syria since conflict began. for many of those left behind, death is a constant threat. the un believes more than 70,000 people have died in the conflict to date. >> a constant stream of refugees in a crisis that has lasted almost two years. it has now become a flood. people injured in the fighting are among those arriving here on the jordanian border. the un knew the numbers would go up, but officials are finding it hard to keep up with the scale of this crisis. the governments of jordan, turkey, and lebanon have all said they can barely cope with the numbers arriving. the un says the situation inside syria is even worse, a total of 4 million, out from a previous estimate of 2.5 million people, have been displaced from their homes and are in desperate need. >> we are wa
Feb 23, 2013 7:00am PST
leadership has decided to suspend its participation in the meeting of the friends of syria and decline the invitations to visit russia and the united states. >> from the start of the uprising the international community has criticized syria's op sigs for its failure to unite. but now it seems the syrian national coalition which has been meeting in cairo has put the ball firmly in the courts of the international community. it says its members have reached an agreement on forming a government to run reble held areas. >> the leaders of the southeastern national coalition have agreed to form a transitional government to operate within rebel held areas. it's been decided that the head will be announce bid march 2 after an agreement's been reached with all opposition groups. agreeing to form a government will strengthen the position but unfortunately for those living under the bombardment it doesn't weaken that of the president. and as a diplomatic strugen to find a solution to the bloody war continues so does the death and destruction. for those inside syria that's been their daily reality
Feb 24, 2013 6:30am EST
and the behavior of both sides is growing more and more radicalized, so says a new report investigating syria's two-year-old conflicts which has left an estimated cites, qu unquote, credible evidence of war crimes and crimes against humanity perpetrated by the government forces of bashar al- assad. and the opposition rebels who oppose them. the report details, quote, sexual violence, abuses against children, unquote. one of the authors of the report, a former chief u.n. war crimes prosecutor says syria should be refused to the icc, the international criminal court. those responsible for such crimes, he says there is a list of the high-level perpetrators, should be prosecuted. >> i would say as a defender of justice, it must be imminent, urgently, because crimes continuing committed in syria and the number of incidents are increasing day to day, so justice must be done. >> the u.n. panel also had this recommendation to the international community. quote, curb the proliferation and supply of weapons, unquote, into syria. >> question, one round robin. the timing of the report helpful or unhelpful to d
Feb 21, 2013 5:30pm PST
of the leaders of the opposition groups fighting in syria are not in syria tonight. they're in cairo for talks, and that's where we find our correspondent clarissa ward tonight. clarissa, what are they saying about the bombing, and what is the point of the talks there? >> reporter: well, scott unsurprisingly, the opposition has released a statement condemning today's bombing and saying that the assad regime was to blame for this attack. of course, the assad government saying that it was, in fact, extremist elements within the opposition who were responsible. but the meetings that are going on here in cairo among the syrian opposition are essentially to determine the conditions for possible talks between the syrian opposition and the assad regime. those talks would likely be brokered by the u.s., and also by russia. >> pelley: emphasis on "possible talks." clarissa, thank you very much. clarissa has another story for us tonight about some of the people who are suffering the most. a few of the many rebel groups are connected to islamic radicals, and christians who have lived in syria for more th
Feb 19, 2013 8:30am EST
you tell us what's going in syria? obviously a lot of these this week as we sit here. would you share with us the latest, please? >> widespread violence, 60,000 people killed. vicious regime -- regime is holding out, actually making gains in some places in the country. we are particularly concerned by the control or lack of control of the syrian chemical weapons arsenal, which is the largest arsenal of its type in the world. and we're in close communication with the united states about that situation. the united states is in touch with other regional actors who share our concerns about the chemical weapons in syria's arsem. >> ma motivated israel to act this week? >> i can't comment on that. but i will tell you that we are keeping a close watch on the situation in syria. >> right. let me ask a broader question. why is israel considered the business of other country like israel knob its national interest? >> syria is next door to us. and syria has declared itself in a state of war with us. syria has waged several times war against the state of israel. >> right. >> we have a common bord
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Feb 2, 2013 12:00am EST
going on in that part of the world, whether you talk about syria, turkey, iran, i mean, the middle east is an important place, volatile, and we have to pay attention to it. melissa: it is, but, you know, turkey is a popular tourist destination. it's not one of the places we think of as being such a target for americans. does this maybe represent a shift that things are getting more serious? >> well, look, the situation in syria, i think, is related. whether this group is, you know, we don't know the real motives. this is still breaking news, melissa. we have to learn more, but my sense is a lot of this goes back to syriament i mean, this is something that's been going on for almost two years, more than 60,000 dead. how many just displaced persons, i don't know, a million or so. it's rattling all the governments in the region, and i think whether you say some people say it's related to the group being anti-american, anti-nato, american forces in turkey to protect turkey with missile defenses, but that's back to syria again, protecting them from syria. the policy in syria, i think, is a f
Feb 19, 2013 11:00pm PST
york times" on syria and whether the president may be reconsidering the use of american weapons supplied to the rebels. the concern president obama had lying weapons would in effect be involved in a proxy war supported by iran and russia. the other side of the debate is nothing else is working and we need to create pressure on assad and build relationship with people inside syria who might take over one day. another factor is there are rebels, al-qaeda affiliated rebels the united states and the west doesn't support. and i don't think it's in the west's interest to see them end up at the top of the heap. >> rose: and then we turn to the story of the chinese army spying on the american government and american companies with david sanger of the "new york times," dune lawrence and michael riley of bloomberg businessweek. >> the cyber has been off to the side as something of an annoyance. i'm hearing this has gotten so big it's moving to the center of the relationship and it risks the rest of the relationship. i think the next thing you're going to see the president sending some ki
Feb 24, 2013 9:00am EST
for a couple of months. >> we're not ready yet? >> we're not ready. >>> another subject. syria, the situation seemed to have deteriorated. we talked to terry moran earlier this morning about the options the u.s. has right now. >> we just got out of syria. it looks like the situation there is going to go from worse to worse. you got rising sectarian hatred. now, staking their claim to the future in syria, massive war crimes rising violence and criminality and we could find no evidence that bashares asad is about to break. they wanted to change the government. the united states has a choice, armed the rebels, engage deeply or broker a peace. probably with russia. give the syrian people an opportunity to determine their future and at least in the first stages, he's likely to be a part of that process. >> congressman engel, is that the choice? >> i think it is. i think it's time to armed the rebels. it needs help. we know who they are. it's time that we make that move. >> white house officials make two arguments against arming the rebels. one, you don't want them to have shoulder-fire missiles be
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 1,370 (some duplicates have been removed)